Saturday 22 November 2008 | Ambrose Evans-Pritchard feed | All feeds

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Germany takes hot seat as Europe falls into the abyss

We face extreme danger. Unless there is immediate intervention on every front by all the major powers acting in concert, we risk a disintegration of global finance within days. Nobody will be spared, unless they own gold bars.

 
European Central bank Governor Trichet
Star-crossed bankers: The European Central Bank played a shockingly destructive role Photo: REUTERS

Investors will learn today whether the Paulson bail-out - fattened to $850bn (£480bn) by Congress - can begin to halt the death spiral in the credit system. So far, the response looks terrible.

Germany is now in the hot seat. The collapse of a rescue deal for Hypo Real Estate on Saturday threatens a €400bn (£311bn) bankruptcy that nearly matches the Lehman Brothers debacle for sheer scale.

Chancellor Angela Merkel has been forced to pull her head out of the sand, guaranteeing all German savings, a day after she rebuked Ireland for doing much the same thing. Reality intrudes.

During the past week, we have tipped over the edge, into the middle of the abyss. Systemic collapse is in full train. The Netherlands has just rushed through a second, more sweeping nationalisation of Fortis. Ireland and Greece have had to rescue all their banks. Iceland is facing an Argentine denouement.

The US commercial paper market is closed. It shrank $95bn last week, and has lost $208bn in three weeks. The interbank lending market has seized up. There are almost no bids. It is a ghost market. Healthy companies cannot roll over debt. Some will have to sack staff today to stave off default.

As the unflappable Warren Buffett puts it, the credit freeze is “sucking blood” out of the economy. “In my adult lifetime, I don’t think I’ve ever seen people as fearful,” he said.

We are fast approaching the point of no return. The only way out of this calamitous descent is “shock and awe” on a global scale, and even that may not be enough.

Drastic rate cuts would be a good start. Central bankers still paralysed by a misplaced fear of inflation – whether in Europe, Britain, or the US – have become a public menace and should be held to severe account by our democracies. The imminent and massive danger is now self-feeding debt deflation.

The lesson of the 1930s is that any country trying to reflate in isolation will be punished. The crisis will ricochet from one economy to another until every one is crippled. We are seeing it play again in this drama as our leaders fail to rise above their narrow, parochial agendas.

The European Central Bank – which raised rates into the teeth of the crisis in July – has played a shockingly destructive role in this enveloping slump. Its growth predictions this year have been, and still are, delusional. Neglecting its global role, it has vastly complicated the fire-fighting efforts of Washington.

It could have offered “cover” to the US Federal Reserve this spring when Ben Bernanke was forced by events to slash rates to 2pc. It could at least have signalled an end to monetary tightening. That is how an ally ought to behave.

Instead, it stuck maniacally to its Gothic script, with equally unhappy consequences for both sides of the Atlantic, as well as for China, Japan, and India. The euro rocketed yet further, which it turn set off an oil shock as crude metamorphosed into an anti-dollar with leverage.

The ECB policy was self-defeating, even on its own terms. It merely drove headline inflation even higher, while deeper forces of underlying debt deflation pulled the real economies of Germany, Italy, France, and Spain into a recessionary vortex.

Far from offering reassurance, the weekend mini-summit of EU leaders served only to highlight that nobody is in charge of this runaway train. There is still no lender of last resort in euroland. The £12bn stimulus package is risible.

Angela Merkel has revealed her deep limitations. It was she who vetoed French efforts to launch a pan-EU rescue package, suspecting that any lifeboat fund would prove to be Trojan Horse – a way of co-opting German taxpayers into colossal transfers of wealth to Latin Europe.

In that she is right, but it is too late now for dysfunctional EU political games. By demanding that those who caused the damage should pay for it, she crossed the line into caricature, or worse.

Her comments echo word for word the “we’re alright Jack” attitudes of Euro-pols during the first US banking crises in 1930-1931, until the storm hit Europe and the entire cast was swept away by furious electorates, or simply shot. Thankfully, this EU stupidity is at last drawing serious criticism.

“We have to make sure Europe takes its responsibilities, like the US: action must be taken quickly and in a concerted manner,” said IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn.

As for the US itself, it has not yet exhausted its policy arsenal. It can escalate further up the nuclear ladder. The Fed can cut interest rates from 2pc to zero. If that fails, it can let rip with the mass purchase of US debt.

“The US government has a technology, called a printing press,” said Fed chief Ben Bernanke in November 2002. (His helicopter speech).

In extremis, the Treasury/Fed can swoop into any market to shore up asset prices. They can buy Florida property. They can even buy SUV guzzlers from the car lots in Detroit, and mangle them in scrap yards. As Bernanke put it, the Fed can “expand the menu of assets that it buys.”

There is a devilish catch to this ploy, of course. It assumes that foreign creditors will tolerate such action.

Japan entered its Lost Decade as the world’s top creditor, with a vast pool of household savings to cushion the slump. America starts its purge with net external liabilities of $3 trillion, and a savings rate near zero. Foreigners own over half the US Treasury debt, and two thirds of all Fannie, Freddie, and other US agency bonds.

But the risk of a dollar collapse is one for the distant future. Right now the world faces the opposite problem. There is a wild scramble for dollars as a $10 trillion pyramid of global lending based on dollar balance sheets “delevers” with a vengeance.

This is a “short squeeze” on those who have used the dollar for a vast global carry trade. International banks are facing margin calls on their dollar leverage. It is why the Fed is having to provide $1.25 trillion in dollar liquidity for the entire global system, according to estimates by Brad Setser from the Center for Geoeconomic Studies.

The crisis engulfing Europe, Asia and emerging markets, makes life easier for Washington. The United States is becoming a safe-haven again.

The Fed can now hope to pursue monetary stimulus “a l’outrance” without being slapped down by the currency, debt, and commodity markets. Take comfort where you can.

Comments: 527

  • Amazing. The worst economic and cultural crisis of all time will go down in history horribly misunderstood. What a pathetic bunch of ignorant fools we have become. Consumer junkie credit card morons. Perfect little victims. Say that reminds me.

    Don�t believe one optimistic word from any public figure about the economy or humanity in general. They are all part of the problem. Its like a game of Monopoly. In America, the richest 1% now hold ALMOST 1/2 OF ALL UNITED STATES WEALTH. Unlike �lesser� estimates, this includes all stocks, bonds, cash, offshore accounts, and material assets held by America�s richest 1%. Even that filthy pig Oprah acknowledged that it was at about 50% in 2006. Naturally, she put her own �humanitarian� spin on it. Calling attention to her own �good will�. WHAT A DISGUSTING HYPOCRITE SLOB. THE RICHEST ONE PERCENT HAVE LITERALLY MADE WORLD PROSPERITY ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE. Don�t fall for any of their �humanitarian� CRAP. ITS A SHAM. THESE PEOPLE ARE CAUSING THE SAME PROBLEMS THEY PRETEND TO CARE ABOUT. Ask any professor of economics. Money does not grow on trees. The government can�t just print up more on a whim. At any given time, there is a relative limit to the wealth within ANY economy of ANY size. So when too much wealth accumulates at the top, the middle class slip further into debt and the lower class further into poverty. A similar rule applies worldwide. The world�s richest 1% now own over 40% of ALL WORLD WEALTH. This is EVEN AFTER you account for all of this �good will� �humanitarian� BS from celebrities and executives. ITS A SHAM. As they get richer and richer, less wealth is left circulating beneath them. This is the single greatest underlying cause for the current US recession. The middle class can no longer afford to sustain their share of the economy. Their wealth has been gradually transfered to the richest 1%. One way or another, we suffer because of their incredible greed. We are talking about TRILLIONS of dollars which have been transfered FROM US TO THEM. All over a period of about 27 years. Thats Reaganomics for you. The wealth does not �trickle down� as we were told it would. It just accumulates at the top. Shrinking the middle class and expanding the lower class. Causing a domino effect of socio-economic problems. But the rich will never stop. They just keep getting richer. Leaving even less of the pie for the other 99% of us to share. At the same time, they throw back a few tax deductible crumbs and call themselves �humanitarians�. Cashing in on the PR and getting even richer the following year. IT CAN�T WORK THIS WAY. Their bogus efforts to make the world a better place can not possibly succeed. Any �humanitarian� progress made in one area will be lost in another. EVERY SINGLE TIME. IT ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT WORK THIS WAY. This is going to end just like a game of Monopoly. The current US recession will drag on for years and lead into the worst US depression of all time. The richest 1% will live like royalty while the rest of us fight over jobs, food, and gasoline. So don�t fall for any of this PR CRAP from Hollywood, Pro Sports, and Wall Street PIGS. ITS A SHAM. Remember: They are filthy rich EVEN AFTER their tax deductible contributions. Greedy pigs. Now, we are headed for the worst economic and cultural crisis of all time. Crime, poverty, and suicide will skyrocket. SEND A �THANK YOU� NOTE TO YOUR FAVORITE MILLIONAIRE. ITS THEIR FAULT. I�m not discounting other factors like China, sub-prime, or gas prices. But all of those factors combined still pale in comparison to that HUGE transfer of wealth to the rich. Anyway, those other factors are all related and further aggrivated because of GREED. If it weren�t for the OBSCENE distribution of wealth within our country, there never would have been such a market for sub-prime to begin with. IF IT WEREN�T FOR THE OBSCENE, UNREASONABLE, AND UNJUST DISTRIBUTION OF UNITED STATES WEALTH, THERE NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN SUCH A MARKET FOR SUB-PRIME AND THERE NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN A COLLAPSE IN THE HOUSING MARKET. Sub-prime did not cause the problem. It only accelerated the outcome. Which by the way, was another trick whipped up by greedy bankers and executives. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. The credit industry has been ENDORSED by people like Oprah Winfrey, Ellen DeGeneres, Dr Phil, and many other celebrities. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. In fact, they specifically endorsed Countrywide by name. The same Countrywide widely responsible for predatory adjustable rate sub-prime lending and the accelerated collapse of the housing market. ENDORSED BY OPRAH WINFREY, ELLEN DEGENERES, AND DR PHIL. Now, there are commercial ties between nearly every industry and every public figure. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. It also drives up the cost for nearly every product and service on the market. So don�t fall for their �good will� BS. ITS A LIE. If you fall for it, then you�re a fool. If you see any real difference between the moral character of a celebrity, politician, attorney, or executive, then you�re a fool. No offense fellow citizens. But we have been mislead by nearly every public figure. We still are. Even now, they claim to be �hurting� right along with the rest of us. As if gas prices actually effect the lifestyle of a millionaire. ITS A LIE. IN 2007, THE RICHEST 1% INCREASED THEIR AVERAGE BOTTOM LINE WEALTH AGAIN. On average, they are now worth over $4,000,000 each. Thats an all time high. As a group, they are now worth well over $17,000,000,000,000. THATS WELL OVER SEVENTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS. Another all time high. Which by the way, is much more than the entire middle and lower classes combined. Also more than enough to pay off our national debt, fund the Iraq war for a decade, repair our infrastructure, and bail out the US housing market. Still think that our biggest problem is China? Think again. Its the 1% club. That means every big name celebrity, athlete, executive, entrepreneur, developer, banker, and lottery winner. Along with many attorneys, doctors, and politicians. If they are rich, then they are part of the problem. Their incredible wealth was not �created�, �generated�, grown in their back yard, or printed up on their command. It was transfered FROM US TO THEM. Directly and indirectly. Its become near impossible to spend a dollar without making some greedy pig even richer. Don�t be fooled by the occasional loss of a millionaire�s fortune. Overall, they just keep getting richer. They absolutely will not stop. Still, they have the nerve to pretend as if they care about ordinary people. ITS A LIE. NOTHING BUT CALCULATED PR CRAP. WAKE UP PEOPLE. THEIR GOAL IS TO WIN THE GAME. The 1% club will always say or do whatever it takes to get as rich as possible. Without the slightest regard for anything or anyone but themselves. Reaganomics. Their idea. Loans from China. Their idea. NAFTA. Their idea. Outsourcing. Their idea. Sub-prime. Their idea. High energy prices. Their idea. Oil �futures�. Their idea. Obscene health care charges. Their idea. The commercial lobbyist. Their idea. The multi-million dollar lawsuit. Their idea. The multi-million dollar endorsement deal. Their idea. $200 cell phone bills. Their idea. $200 basketball shoes. Their idea. $30 late fees. Their idea. $30 NSF fees. Their idea. $20 DVDs. Their idea. Subliminal advertising. Their idea. Brainwash plots on TV. Their idea. Vioxx, and Celebrex. Their idea. Excessive medical testing. Their idea. The MASSIVE campaign to turn every American into a brainwashed, credit card, pharmaceutical, medical testing, love-sick, celebrity junkie. Their idea. All of the above drive up the cost of living, shrink the middle class, concentrate the world�s wealth and resources, create a dominoe effect of socio-economic problems, and wreak havok on society. All of which have been CREATED AND ENDORSED by celebrities, athletes, executives, entrepreneurs, attorneys, and politicians. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. So don�t fall for any of their �good will� �humanitarian� BS. ITS A SHAM. NOTHING BUT TAX DEDUCTIBLE PR CRAP. In many cases, the �charitable� contribution is almost entirely offset. Not to mention the opportunity to plug their name, image, product, and �good will� all at once. Which is usually done just before or after the release of their latest commercial project. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. These filthy pigs even have the nerve to throw a fit and spin up a misleading defense with regard to �federal tax revenue�. ITS A SHAM. THEY SCREWED UP THE EQUATION TO BEGIN WITH. If the middle and lower classes had a greater share of the pie, they could easily cover a greater share of the federal tax revenue. They are held down in many ways because of greed. Wages remain stagnant for millions because the executives, celebrities, athletes, attorneys, and entrepreneurs, are paid millions. They over-sell, over-charge, under-pay, outsource, cut jobs, and benefits to increase their bottom line. As their profits rise, so do the stock values. Which are owned primarily by the richest 5%. As more United States wealth rises to the top, the middle and lower classes inevitably suffer. This reduces the potential tax reveue drawn from those brackets. At the same time, it wreaks havok on middle and lower class communities and increases the need for financial aid. Not to mention the spike in crime because of it. There is a dominoe effect to consider. IT CAN�T WORK THIS WAY. But our leaders refuse to acknowledge this. Instead they come up with one trick after another to milk the system and screw the majority. These decisions are heavily influensed by the 1% club. Every year, billions of federal tax dollars are diverted behind the scenes back to the rich and their respective industries. Loans from China have been necessary to compensate in part, for the red ink and multi-trillion dollar transfer of wealth to the rich. At the same time, the feds have been pushing more financial burden onto the states who push them lower onto the cities. Again, the hardship is felt more by the majority and less by the 1% club. The rich prefer to live in exclusive areas or upper class communities. They get the best of everything. Reliable city services, new schools, freshly paved roads, upscale parks, ect. The middle and lower class communities get little or nothing without a local tax increase. Which, they usually can�t afford. So the red ink flows followed by service cuts and lay-offs. All because of the OBSCENE distribution of bottom line wealth in this country. Anyway, when you account for all federal, state, and local taxes, the middle class actually pay about the same rate as the rich. The devil is in the details. So when people forgive the rich for their incredible greed and then praise them for paying a greater share of the FEDERAL income taxes, its like nails on a chalk board. I can not accept any theory that our economy would suffer in any way with a more reasonable distribution of wealth. Afterall, it was more reasonable 30 years ago. Before Reaganomics came along. Before GREED became such an epidemic. Before we had an army of over-paid executives, bankers, celebrities, athletes, attorneys, doctors, investors, entrepreneurs, developers, and sold-out politicians to kiss their asses. As a nation, we were in much better shape. Strong middle class, free and clear assets, lower crime rate, more widespread prosperity, stable job market, lower deficit, ect. Our economy as a whole was much more stable and prosperous for the majority. WITHOUT LOANS FROM CHINA. Now, we have a more obscene distribution of bottom line wealth than ever before. We have a sold-out government, crumbling infrastructure, energy crisis, home forclosure epidemic, credit crunch, weak US dollar, 13 figure national deficit, and 12 figure annual shortfall. The cost of living is higher than ever before. Most people can�t even afford basic health care. ALL BECAUSE OF GREED. I really don�t blame the 2nd -5th percentiles in general. No economy could ever function without some reasonable scale of personal wealth and income. But it can�t be allowed to run wild like a mad dog. ALBERT EINSTEIN TRIED TO MAKE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND. UNBRIDLED CAPITALISM ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT WORK. TOP HEAVY ECONOMIES ALWAYS COLLAPSE. Bottom line: The richest 1% will soon tank the largest economy in the world. It will be like nothing we�ve ever seen before. The American dream will be shattered. and thats just the beginning. Greed will eventually tank every major economy in the world. Causing millions to suffer and die. Oprah, Angelina, Brad, Bono, and Bill are not part of the solution. They are part of the problem. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MULTI-MILLIONAIRE HUMANITARIAN. EXTREME WEALTH MAKES WORLD PROSPERITY ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE. WITHOUT WORLD PROSPERITY, THERE WILL NEVER BE WORLD PEACE OR ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL. Of course, the rich will throw a fit and call me a madman. Of course, they will jump to small minded conclusions about �jealousy�, �envy�, or �socialism�. Of course, their ignorant fans will do the same. You have to expect that. But I speak the truth. If you don�t believe me, then copy this entry and run it by any professor of economics or socio-economics. Then tell a friend. Call the local radio station. Re-post this entry or put it in your own words. Be one of the first to predict the worst economic and cultural crisis of all time and explain its cause. WE ARE IN BIG TROUBLE.

    So what can we do about it? Well, not much. Unfortunately, we are stuck on a runaway train. The problem has gone unchecked for too many years. The US/global depression is comming thanks to the 1% club. It would take a massive effort by the vast majority to prevent it. Along with a voluntary sacrifice by the rich. THATS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. But if you believe in miracles, then spend your money as wisely as possible. Especially in middle and lower class communities. Check the Fortune 500 list and limit your support of high profit/low labor industries (Hollywood, pro sports, energy, credit, pharmaceutical, cable, satelite, internet advertising, cell phone, high fashion, jewelry, ect.). Cancel all but one credit card for emergencies only. If you need a cell phone, then do your homework and find the best deal on a local pre-pay. If you want home internet access, then use the least expensive provider, and share accounts whenever possible. If you need to search, then use the less popular search engines. They usually produce the same results anyway. Don�t click on any internet ad. If you need the product or service, then look up the phone number or address and contact that business directly. Don�t pay to see any blockbuster movie. Instead, wait a few months and rent the DVD from a local store or buy it USED. If you want to see a big name game or event, then watch it in a local bar, club, or at home on network TV. Don�t buy any high end official merchendise and don�t support the high end sponsors. If its endorsed by a big name celebrity, then don�t buy it. If you can afford a new car, then make an exception for GM, Ford, and Dodge. If they don�t increase their market share soon, then a lot more people are going to get screwed out of their pensions and/or benefits. Of course, you must know by now to avoid those big trucks and SUVs unless you truly need one for its intended purpose. Don�t be ashamed to buy a foreign car if you prefer it. Afterall, those with the most fuel efficient vehicles consume a lot less foreign oil. Which accounts for a pretty big chunk of our trade deficit. Anyway, the global economy is worth supporting to some extent. Its the obscene profit margins, trade deficits, and BS from OPEC that get us into trouble. Otherwise, the global economy would be a good thing for everyone. Just keep in mind that the big 3 are struggling and they do produce a few smaller reliable cars. Don�t frequent any high end department store or any business in a newly developed upper class community. By doing so, you make developers richer and draw support away from industrial areas and away from the middle class communities. Instead, support the local retailer and the less popular shopping centers. Especially in lower or middle class communities. If you can afford to buy a home, then do so. But go smaller and less expensive. Don�t get yourself in too deep and don�t buy into the newly developed condos or gated communities. Instead, find a modest home in a building or neighborhood at least 20 years old. If you live in one of the poorer states, then try to support its economy first and foremost. Be on the lookout for commercial brainwash plots on TV. They are written into nearly every scene of nearly every show. Most cater to network sponsors and parent companies. Especially commercial health care. Big business is fine on occasion depending on the profit margins and profit sharing. Do your homework. If you want to support any legitimate charity, then do so directly. Never support any celebrity foundation. They spend most of their funding on PR campaigns, travel, and high end accomodations for themselves. Instead, go to Charitywatch.org and look up a top rated charity to support your favorite cause. In general, support the little guy as much as possible and the big guy as little as possible. Do your part to reverse the transfer of wealth away from the rich and back to the middle and lower classes. Unfortunately, there is no perfect answer. Jobs will be lost either way. Innocent children will starve and die either way. But we need to support the largest group of workers with the most reasonable profit margins. We also need to support LEGITIMATE charities (Check that list at Charitywatch.org). This is our only chance to limit the severity and/or duration of the comming US/global depression. In the meantime, don�t listen to Bernanke, Paulson, Bartiromo, Orman, Dobbs, Kramer, OReiley, or any other public figure with regard to the economy. They are all plenty smart but I swear to you that they will lie right through their rotten teeth. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. These people work for big business. The �experts� they cite also work for big business. They are all motivated by their desire to accumulate more wealth. THEY WILL LIE RIGHT THROUGH THEIR ROTTEN TEETH. So don�t fall for their tricks. Instead, look at the big picture. The economic problems we face have been mounting for well over 20 years. All of them caused or aggrivated by a constant transfer of wealth from poorer to richer. Soon, it will cause the first ever GLOBAL DEPRESION. Its not brain surgery. Its simple math. Like I said, you are welcome to run this by any professor of economics or socio-economics. If thats not good enough, then look up what Einstein had to say about greed, extreme wealth, and its horrible concequences. I speak the truth. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.

    Its already underway. A massive campaign to divert our attention. Trump, Buffet, OReiley, Dobbs, Pickens, Norris, and several other well known filthy rich public figures have been running their mouths about the economy. Finally admitting a hint of severity after almost 2 years of denial. They even have the nerve to acknowledge the possibility of a US/global depression. Still, they refuse to acknowledge the single greatest underlying cause. Instead, they focus on policies, procedures, and circumstances that were born FROM the underlying cause. Dancing their way around the big picture. DON'T FALL FOR IT. Remember: Our national debt was way up BEFORE sub-prime. Consumer debt was way up BEFORE sub-prime. The cost of living was up BEFORE sub-prime. Wall Street profits were obscene BEFORE sub-prime. The middle class were loosing free and clear assets BEFORE sub-prime. Our infrastructure was in bad shape BEFORE sub-prime. Loans from China were taken out BEFORE sub-prime. The dollar was loosing value BEFORE sub-prime. So don�t let these cowardly filthy rich public figures divert your attention or limit your range of thought. THE CURRENT ECONOMIC CRISIS WAS NOT CAUSED BY A SINGLE POLICY OR PROCEDURE. IT WAS CAUSED PRIMARILY BY A MASSIVE TRANSFER OF WEALTH FROM POOR TO RICH. THIS ALSO REPRESENTS A MASSIVE CONCENTRATION OF CAPITAL WORLDWIDE. OTHERWISE, THERE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN SUCH A MARKET FOR SUB-PRIME AND THERE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A GLOBAL CREDIT CRUNCH. MONEY DOES NOT GROW ON TREES AND IT DOES NOT JUST FLOAT AWAY. IT ONLY TRANSFERS FROM ONE PARTY TO ANOTHER. ALBERT EINSTEIN TRIED TO MAKE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.

    A word for those who respond with the usual �I know more than you. Look how smart, knowledgable, and articulate I am� crap. Let me say this in advance. I don�t claim to be an expert in this field. But I did go on record with these predictions long before any public figure uttered the word �recession�. If you search long enough, you will find my early postings from �05′ and �06′. Including the first draft of this rant. Since then, I�ve gone on record against people like Greenspan, Bernanke, and Paulson. So far, my predictions have been accurate. Like I said. This is not brain surgery. For the mostpart, its simple math. When you concentrate the world�s wealth, you also concentrate its capital and shrink the middle class along with the potential market for every major industry. Homes go unsold. Bills go unpaid. Banks fail. More products go unsold. Jobs are lost. More banks fail. and so on. and so on. It happened 80 years ago. It will happen again. This time on a global scale. Throughout the cycle, the rich will tighten their grip. Concentrating the world�s wealth and resources even further and ensuring the collapse of every major economy worldwide. Think it can�t happen? Think again. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.

    Another thing. I don�t want credit for any of this. Otherwise, I would have given my full name a long time ago. As far as I�m concerned, you can put this rant in your own words and take credit for all of it. I don�t care. Just spread the word. Otherwise, the greatest injustice of all time will go down in history unchecked.

    By the way. The bailout won�t work. IT WON�T WORK. The plan fails to address the fundamental problem. The middle class don�t need more credit. They need a reasonable share of the economic pie. They also need a lower cost of living and a chance to catch their breath. They need a break from all of the psychological marketing tricks and mass market BS. Most of all, they need to wake up and see the truth. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.

    To my surprise, two public figures have found the courage to acknowledge this problem to some degree. On 11.07.07 former presidential candidate Ron Paul mentioned the massive transfer of wealth from poor to rich. He also hinted at the possibility of economic collapse. He did so on 'Face the Nation'. He was blacklisted almost immediately for doing so. On 9.28.08 former secretary of labor Robert Reich refered to the obscene levels of income inequality as part of a "recipe for disaster". He mentioned the richest one percent in particular. He did so on 'Late Night With Conan OBrien'. As far as I know, Albert Einstein was the first to explain the link between extreme wealth and economic instability. He did so in 1949. He explained how the first Great Depression was actually caused by a massive transfer of wealth from poor to rich. He predicted that it would happen again. He was right. Amazing. The prosperity of an entire world is about to be compromised. Almost entirely because of greed. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.

    The point about our government printing up more money was that it can't be done "on a whim" and that there are serious concequences for doing so (weak dollar, higher gas prices, inflation). I never said that it can't be or hasn't been done at all. Afterall, those loans from china weren't infused in the form of Chinese currency. They were infused in the form of our own. Not given to the middle class but instead to the banks in the form of credit. Its done nothing but perpetuate the problem. It never has been and never will be the answer. Sorry if I wasn't explicit enough the first time. The original draft was written 2 years ago and intended to fit within 300 characters. Anyway, I'm no English major. So if any of you want to re-word this post, feel free to do so. Whatever it takes to make people understand.

    ano
    on October 13, 2008
    at 02:47 PM
  • Just leave Britney alone! Leave her alone!

    Richard Warwick
    on October 10, 2008
    at 01:22 AM
  • Just leave Britney alone! Leave her alone!

    Richard Warwick
    on October 10, 2008
    at 01:10 AM
  • Just leave Britney alone! Leave her alone!

    Richard Warwick
    on October 10, 2008
    at 01:07 AM
  • Mark my words!
    THE US economy has disintegrated. The USD will be eliminated and replaced by the Amero and people will lose 90% purchasing power. Martial law is coming. BUT an incredible manifestation of divinity in 6-7 months will mark the slowbeginning of a better world.

    AKG
    on October 10, 2008
    at 12:07 AM
  • To suggest that Ambrose is a harbinger of doom and a scare-monger is naive to the point of being comical. The only thing (tenuous and fragile as it will prove to be) that keeps the economies of UK, Europe and the USA weakly afloat, are the fiat currency printing presses that they are now running at full capacity. But soon, this chicken will come home to roost - just as all the others are doing.

    Key for everyone is to minimise exposure to debt, put whatever cash one has left over into gold and silver, and ride out the hurricane that is yet to come...

    Graham
    on October 09, 2008
    at 01:03 PM
  • If anyone is still under the delusion that throwing $700 billion at Wall Street is going to have any effect you need to read this, the biggest party in history is about to begin, all at the U.S. taxpayers expense. Trust me, this is only the beginning:


    After Bailout, AIG Executives Head to Resort
    UPDATED: 11:31 a.m.

    Less than a week after the federal government offered an $85 billion bailout to insurance giant AIG, the company held a week-long retreat for its executives at the luxury St. Regis Resort in Monarch Beach, Calif., running up a tab of $440,000, Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) said today at the the opening of a House committee hearing about the near-failure of the insurance giant.

    Showing a photograph of the resort, Waxman said the executives spent $200,000 for rooms, $150,000 for meals and $23,000 for the spa.

    "Less than a week after the taxpayers rescued AIG, company executives could be found wining and dining at one of the most exclusive resorts in the nation," Waxman said. "We will ask whether any of this makes sense. "

    The committee will ask the company's executives about their multimillion-dollar pay packages -- some of which they continue to receive -- as well as who bears responsibility for the company's high-risk investment portfolio, which led to its near collapse just weeks ago.

    "They were getting their manicures, their pedicures, massages, their facials while the American people were paying their bills," thundered Rep. Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.), of the executive retreat at the Monarch Resort.

    The House committee, which took on executive compensation at bankrupt Wall Street firm Lehman Brothers yesterday, has received "tens of thousands" of pages of documents from AIG, Waxman said.

    Those documents show that as the company's risky investments began to implode, the company altered its generous executive pay plan to pay out regardless of such losses.
    AIG lost over $5 billion in the last quarter of 2007 due its risky financial products division, Waxman said. Yet in March 2008, when the company's compensation committee met to award bonuses, Chief Executive Martin Sullivan urged the committee to ignore those losses, which should have slashed bonuses.

    But the board agreed to ignore the losses from the financial products division and gave Sullivan a cash bonus of over $5 million. The board also approved a new compensation contract for Sullivan that gave him a golden parachute of $15 million, Waxman said.

    Joseph Cassano, the executive in charge of the company's troubled financial products division, received more than $280 million over the last eight years, Waxman said. Even after he was terminated in February as his investments turned sour, the company allowed him to keep up to $34 million in unvested bonuses and put him on a $1 million-a-month retainer. He continues to receive $1 million a month, Waxman said.

    Waxman also looked skeptically at the executives' defense that the troubles in the business had to do with larger economic forces and not their own bad decisions.
    When a former AIG auditor, Joseph St. Denis, expressed concerns, Cassano told him "I have deliberately excluded you from the valuation ... because I was concerned that you would pollute the process," according to Waxman.

    St. Denis resigned in protest.

    PricewaterhouseCoopers, AIG's auditor, told the company in March 2008 that the "root cause" of AIG's problems was that people assessing risk did not have enough access to the financial products division, where the risky investments originated.
    Waxman further suggested that Sullivan had deliberately misled investors.

    On Dec. 5, 2007, Sullivan expressed confidence to investors. But a week before, PricewaterhouseCoopers warned Sullivan that the company "could have a material weakness relating to these area," committee members said.



    John Weber
    on October 08, 2008
    at 01:26 PM
  • Still at it Ambrose !! I think INCONTINENCE PADS would be a better investment for you than gold. Most of the posters are just as spineless. This column is becoming the economic equivalent of Lord Haw-Haw and deserves the same fate. Oh and by the way, if you need any gold in the recession, the best place to find it will be in the houses of Daily Telegraph readers. Perhaps security guards for the wealthy will be the next jobs boom ?

    Windy
    on October 08, 2008
    at 09:29 AM
  • "we risk a disintegration of global finance within days. Nobody will be spared, unless they own gold bars."

    For gods' sake Ambrose pull yourself together !! Whatever happened to the British qualities of the 'Stiff upper lip' 'Sang froid' etc ? This sort of spineless whining is just not cricket and will do nothing but frighten the children.
    'What will be will be' and NOTHING that governments can do will make much difference in the short term. This crisis is a result of decades of stupidity by the west and it will not be solved by throwing even more money at it. WE ARE GOING TO GET POORER, and we have to face that like grown ups and stop all this hysterical shrieking. Now, adjust your nappies, stand up straight and join me in a song...."Always look on the bright side of life" etc etc

    John Cameron
    on October 08, 2008
    at 09:06 AM
  • This writer has cried wolf so many times before, with his weird hyperbole-piled-on-hyperbole doom-mongering style... that he's no credibility... even when things are clearly serious. He's become a bit like the nutter with the 'end is nigh' sandwich board at the end of the street.

    gerry houghton
    on October 08, 2008
    at 07:26 AM
  • Cutting interest rates won't make any difference, it didn't in Japan in the 80s, it won't here and now. Interest rates didn't cause the problem - interest rates won't solve it.

    The problem was, is, and always will be people. Their perceptions, expectations and willingness to trust have been severely damaged - both within and outside the system. Until that is healed nothing else can work. To do that we need to see a "New" form of banking with different rules and new banks created from scratch to take on the roles banks are needed to play rather the roles the recent "Wide Boys" wanted, and in many cases still want, to play.

    Neil Jones
    on October 08, 2008
    at 07:19 AM
  • Louis on October 06, 2008 at 06:50 AM

    and your point is what please?

    Graham Dawes
    on October 08, 2008
    at 06:02 AM
  • I've been following the economic news at www.infowars.com . They have always been accurate with their info.

    If you don't fear the boogeyman he can't hurt you. Don't be afraid - they prey on fearful people.

    Chris Cudnoski
    on October 08, 2008
    at 05:44 AM
  • I've been following the economic news at www.infowars.com . They have always been accurate with their info.

    If you don't fear the boogeyman he can't hurt you. Don't be afraid - they prey on fearful people.

    Chris Cudnoski
    on October 08, 2008
    at 05:18 AM
  • Get rid of the central bankers of the world and eliminate the problems that started in 1694 in England by the Rothchilds. Amen!

    scwartzwer
    on October 08, 2008
    at 03:17 AM
  • Richard,

    Correct. Gold and its 'poor man' substitute, silver, offer an exit route for people fleeing the empty promises of bankrupt politicians and banks issuing flimsy paper money based only on their promise to pay.

    Their promise to pay? Yeah, right. Like Iceland today, a country that paid high rates to offshore deposits from the UK, yet those UK depositors cannot get their money today.

    Every tip has a tap. Iceland bleats about its 'friends' not offering assistance, so it must take money from its foe, Russia.

    Truth is: money has no loyalty. Iceland will steal money from UK depositors by failing to reimburse them in full. UK depositors were fools to take the higher interest rate without recognising the risk that went with it. Boo hoo. Tough. A wedding of fools for Iceland, and its UK depositors.

    However, it would be bad for individuals if they flee into gold or silver without understanding how these commodities work. Just my opinion.

    Every tip has a tap. Caveat emptor. Pity is that most people are too dim witted to put time into their investments. They want an internet quick, text quick, instant gratification.

    That's not investment. That's a casino. I have no sympathy for such dimwits, and their governments, appeasing such nitwits.

    cynthia
    on October 08, 2008
    at 01:03 AM
  • Richard,

    Correct. Gold and its 'poor man' substitute, silver, offer an exit route for people fleeing the empty promises of bankrupt politicians and banks issuing flimsy paper money based only on their promise to pay.

    Their promise to pay? Yeah, right. Like Iceland today, a country that paid high rates to offshore deposits from the UK, yet those UK depositors cannot get their money today.

    Every tip has a tap. Iceland bleats about its 'friends' not offering assistance, so it must take money from its foe, Russia.

    Truth is: money has no loyalty. Iceland will steal money from UK depositors by failing to reimburse them in full. UK depositors were fools to take the higher interest rate without recognising the risk that went with it. Boo hoo. Tough. A wedding of fools for Iceland, and its UK depositors.

    However, it would be bad for individuals if they flee into gold or silver without understanding how these commodities work. Just my opinion.

    Every tip has a tap. Caveat emptor. Pity is that most people are too dim witted to put time into their investments. They want an internet quick, text quick, instant gratification.

    That's not investment. That's a casino. I have no sympathy for such dimwits, and their governments, appeasing such nitwits.

    cynthia
    on October 08, 2008
    at 12:47 AM
  • "However, the very lack of political centralism in the eurozone is in itself a durable guarantee that state corporatism will never again take hold on the continent."

    No.

    Eventually Europe will forget just as the United States forgot that decentralized government and healthy political discourse is required to maintain a working Republic.

    In the US constition, it's pretty clear that gold and silver are the only money that the Federal government can make, and nobody cares - yet.

    Having money that's actually worth money makes government unncessary to keep the financial system functioning, since if the Federal government collapses, people still have money. On a fiat system, if the government collapses, no money exists.

    Richard Wicks
    on October 08, 2008
    at 12:34 AM
  • As of today, I have absolutely no sympathy for any government anywhere. You morons. Yes. That means you: UK, US, Asian, Russian, Chinese, Arab governments. You morons. With all your knowledge, you sit there on your tax funded fat asses and count fairies on a pinhead (apologies to those who don't get this academic reference.)

    As of today, I have no sympathy for any debtor, anywhere. You were warned, but you buried your silly little heads in the sands of otc derivatives and cheap loans, didn't you?

    My children will be safe. How many children will die and suffer because idiot self serving politicians appeasing idiot self serving debtor voters failed to act in 2006 or earlier; failed to do what was right for future generations.

    Men in politics, and their silly bint echoes (hi cherie and you lapdancing Blair babes) are disgusting.

    Your moment in The Sun is ending.

    Anyone else notice the metal barricades right of Tom Bradby in his live report for ITN tonight?

    When politicians call for a government of national unity, remember this: they are huddling together, hoping your anger can be quelled.

    No matter. Their barricades and 'public order' laws exist, courtesy of your taxpaying money.

    My children are safe. Are yours? If not, wake up from your lazy complacency, pay off your debts, and demand that your nitwit politicians show you RESULTS for your tax money, not just empty promises.

    Good night, and good luck.


    cynthia
    on October 08, 2008
    at 12:25 AM
  • As of today, I have absolutely no sympathy for any government anywhere. You morons. Yes. That means you: UK, US, Asian, Russian, Chinese, Arab governments. You morons. With all your knowledge, you sit there on your tax funded fat asses and count fairies on a pinhead (apologies to those who don't get this academic reference.)

    As of today, I have no sympathy for any debtor, anywhere. You were warned, but you buried your silly little heads in the sands of otc derivatives and cheap loans, didn't you?

    My children will be safe. How many children will die and suffer because idiot self serving politicians appeasing idiot self serving debtor voters failed to act in 2006 or earlier; failed to do what was right for future generations.

    Men in politics, and their silly bint echoes (hi cherie and you lapdancing Blair babes) are disgusting.

    Your moment in The Sun is ending.

    Anyone else notice the metal barricades right of Tom Bradby in his live report for ITN tonight?

    When politicians call for a government of national unity, remember this: they are huddling together, hoping your anger can be quelled.

    No matter. Their barricades and 'public order' laws exist, courtesy of your taxpaying money.

    My children are safe. Are yours? If not, wake up from your lazy complacency, pay off your debts, and demand that your nitwit politicians show you RESULTS for your tax money, not just empty promises.

    Good night, and good luck.


    cynthia
    on October 08, 2008
    at 12:21 AM
  • As of today, I have absolutely no sympathy for any government anywhere. You morons. Yes. That means you: UK, US, Asian, Russian, Chinese, Arab governments. You morons. With all your knowledge, you sit there on your tax funded fat asses and count fairies on a pinhead (apologies to those who don't get this academic reference.)

    As of today, I have no sympathy for any debtor, anywhere. You were warned, but you buried your silly little heads in the sands of otc derivatives and cheap loans, didn't you?

    My children will be safe. How many children will die and suffer because idiot self serving politicians appeasing idiot self serving debtor voters failed to act in 2006 or earlier; failed to do what was right for future generations.

    Men in politics, and their silly bint echoes (hi cherie and you lapdancing Blair babes) are disgusting.

    Your moment in The Sun is ending.

    Anyone else notice the metal barricades right of Tom Bradby in his live report for ITN tonight?

    When politicians call for a government of national unity, remember this: they are huddling together, hoping your anger can be quelled.

    No matter. Their barricades and 'public order' laws exist, courtesy of your taxpaying money.

    My children are safe. Are yours? If not, wake up from your lazy complacency, pay off your debts, and demand that your nitwit politicians show you RESULTS for your tax money, not just empty promises.

    Good night, and good luck.


    cynthia
    on October 08, 2008
    at 12:14 AM
  • This bank crisis was longtermed planned.
    The motive: Producing poorness over the world.

    Professional educated politicians wouldn`t produced this crisis!

    NATO Expert Dr J B Koeppl
    on October 07, 2008
    at 11:08 PM
  • If anyone is still under the delusion that throwing $700 billion at Wall Street is going to have any effect you need to read this, the biggest party in history is about to begin, all at the U.S. taxpayers expense. Trust me, this is only the beginning:


    After Bailout, AIG Executives Head to Resort
    UPDATED: 11:31 a.m.

    Less than a week after the federal government offered an $85 billion bailout to insurance giant AIG, the company held a week-long retreat for its executives at the luxury St. Regis Resort in Monarch Beach, Calif., running up a tab of $440,000, Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) said today at the the opening of a House committee hearing about the near-failure of the insurance giant.

    Showing a photograph of the resort, Waxman said the executives spent $200,000 for rooms, $150,000 for meals and $23,000 for the spa.

    "Less than a week after the taxpayers rescued AIG, company executives could be found wining and dining at one of the most exclusive resorts in the nation," Waxman said. "We will ask whether any of this makes sense. "

    The committee will ask the company's executives about their multimillion-dollar pay packages -- some of which they continue to receive -- as well as who bears responsibility for the company's high-risk investment portfolio, which led to its near collapse just weeks ago.

    "They were getting their manicures, their pedicures, massages, their facials while the American people were paying their bills," thundered Rep. Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.), of the executive retreat at the Monarch Resort.

    The House committee, which took on executive compensation at bankrupt Wall Street firm Lehman Brothers yesterday, has received "tens of thousands" of pages of documents from AIG, Waxman said.

    Those documents show that as the company's risky investments began to implode, the company altered its generous executive pay plan to pay out regardless of such losses.
    AIG lost over $5 billion in the last quarter of 2007 due its risky financial products division, Waxman said. Yet in March 2008, when the company's compensation committee met to award bonuses, Chief Executive Martin Sullivan urged the committee to ignore those losses, which should have slashed bonuses.

    But the board agreed to ignore the losses from the financial products division and gave Sullivan a cash bonus of over $5 million. The board also approved a new compensation contract for Sullivan that gave him a golden parachute of $15 million, Waxman said.

    Joseph Cassano, the executive in charge of the company's troubled financial products division, received more than $280 million over the last eight years, Waxman said. Even after he was terminated in February as his investments turned sour, the company allowed him to keep up to $34 million in unvested bonuses and put him on a $1 million-a-month retainer. He continues to receive $1 million a month, Waxman said.

    Waxman also looked skeptically at the executives' defense that the troubles in the business had to do with larger economic forces and not their own bad decisions.
    When a former AIG auditor, Joseph St. Denis, expressed concerns, Cassano told him "I have deliberately excluded you from the valuation ... because I was concerned that you would pollute the process," according to Waxman.

    St. Denis resigned in protest.

    PricewaterhouseCoopers, AIG's auditor, told the company in March 2008 that the "root cause" of AIG's problems was that people assessing risk did not have enough access to the financial products division, where the risky investments originated.
    Waxman further suggested that Sullivan had deliberately misled investors.

    On Dec. 5, 2007, Sullivan expressed confidence to investors. But a week before, PricewaterhouseCoopers warned Sullivan that the company "could have a material weakness relating to these area," committee members said.



    John Weber
    on October 07, 2008
    at 10:28 PM
  • Ha ha ha you colonialists, you are getting your come-uppance now.

    My country is the only one in the world immune from your imperialist "credit crunch", my people are so rich that they carry round $1,000,000,000 banknotes in their wallets.

    Now you have Peter Mandelson in charge of your "business", what is he going to do? Tell people how to get unsecured mortgages to buy even bigger houses, an extra �300,000 loan will do very nicely please, no need to remember to declare it of course.

    Or will you turn to Geldof and Bonio (you know, the one who lectures us on "environmental sustainability", but has spawned 5 children). Maybe they can arrange for all your debts to be cancelled?

    I am laughing at you, from my bunker here in Harare.

    Robert Mugabe
    on October 07, 2008
    at 08:42 PM
  • Ha ha ha you colonialists, you are getting your come-uppance now.

    My country is the only one in the world immune from your imperialist "credit crunch", my people are so rich that they carry round $1,000,000,000 banknotes in their wallets.

    Now you have Peter Mandelson in charge of your "business", what is he going to do? Tell people how to get unsecured mortgages to buy even bigger houses, an extra �300,000 loan will do very nicely please, no need to remember to declare it of course.

    Or will you turn to Geldof and Bonio (you know, the one who lectures us on "environmental sustainability", but has spawned 5 children). Maybe they can arrange for all your debts to be cancelled?

    I am laughing at you, from my bunker here in Harare.

    Robert Mugabe
    on October 07, 2008
    at 08:37 PM
  • Osama bin Laden must be laughing at us now.

    After 9/11 the western governments feared a meltdown in their economies, and made emergency cuts in interest rates to absurdly low levels.

    This is the root cause of the credit bubble (much invested in overpriced housing) which has now collapsed.

    What we are seeing now is a direct outcome of our economically illiterate response to 9/11.

    I can hear the laughter echoing round that Afghan cave now.

    Robert
    on October 07, 2008
    at 08:17 PM
  • Merkel's reluctance to lower interest rates was an attempt to keep the dollar's fall from flooding Germany with worthless paper, also an attempt to remind US investors that they need to tighten up: real economy. More credit means inflation and Germany doesn't want to have to buy diluted Treasury notes. Germany isn't alone in that perspective. Should the world have to pay for Bush's failed war?

    George LoBuono
    on October 07, 2008
    at 08:09 PM
  • Currently there are too many economic negatives in undefined markets with each vendor choosing their own aims. However Angela Merkel should be given the chance to pick the best economic team she can get her hands on, who can to sort the financial mess out and let the Euro gain and then finish off with the small curencies and unwanted speculation. Corporate Germany is very strong and should be given the chance.

    rich
    on October 07, 2008
    at 07:48 PM
  • Credit freezes don't suck the blood out of a tangible economy. Credit does.

    4w578i
    on October 07, 2008
    at 06:59 PM
  • Credit freezes don't suck the blood out of a tangible economy. Credit does.

    4w578i
    on October 07, 2008
    at 06:56 PM
  • The commentator "Errol Flynn" is entirely correct in his fear of a fascist control over us all.

    In the completion of the prerequisites for a totalitarian state with implanted ID cards, bio electronic interfaces, Google fits into the picture as Big Brother, and a terrifying one at that. With increasing use not only of Googlemail with information stored on Google's central banks of computers instead of people's desktops but also Google online applications to replace local copies of Microsoft Word etc, Google is starting to know what everyone writes, and what everyone thinks.

    Sooner rather than later, Google will be responsible for identifiying and switching off all subversives.

    Anti ID
    on October 07, 2008
    at 06:24 PM
  • It is better to ultimately succeed with the truth than to temporarily succeed with a lie. � Adrian Rodgers.

    The one who buries the Truth in the ground for safekeeping will lose it, while the one who does something with the Truth will receive more Truth. This is why some grow spiritually and some do not. � Chip Brogden

    The thought that provokes thought is much more valuable than the thought that is only an echo of an accepted truth. - Thomas W. Hanford

    Sometimes the majority only means that all the fools are on the same side. � Unknown

    When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. � Dresden James

    Errol Flynn
    on October 07, 2008
    at 06:19 PM
  • The powers behind the money must be feeling scared right now.

    Judging by the posts on here people are really waking up to the evil people designing the destruction of our country.

    Ha ha ha!
    NEW WORLD ORDER
    I think your days are numbered!

    There is still time to save your own skin!

    Mr Wright
    on October 07, 2008
    at 06:12 PM
  • Re: Mark to Market

    This sounds ok and sensible, until a scenario such as we are presently witnessing highlights the fundamental weakness - what happens when there's no market?
    Also, and perhaps even more importantly, it presupposes that "the market" was able to give a transparent / well thought-out / considered / transparent valuation in the first place, with associated evaluation of potential risk, i.e. when "the product" was first sold and purchased.
    Remember:
    Beware of Greeks bearing Gifts,
    Let the Buyer Beware,

    Jamie

    Jamie C.
    on October 07, 2008
    at 05:49 PM
  • 666isMONEY, Babylon is Falling!

    U$A has sooo much bad karma.

    CIA Killed JFK

    9-11 Fraud

    etc!

    Watch McCain (with the help of the CIA) steal the election!

    Raquel Baranow
    on October 07, 2008
    at 05:20 PM
  • Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

    Sadly, these threads all too often degenerate into a dialogue of the deaf with the blind, and irrelevant off topic rants.

    Pose a sensible question, get a stupid, ill informed and prejudiced answer often from someone, ignorant of financial matters or with an axe to grind or some outlandish "off the wall" conspiracy theory and the downright abusive.

    Negative or "knocking" posters should be required to stay on topic and produce positive solutions and not just carping comments.

    Their is nothing more facile and negative than unsubstantiated criticiism and grandiose assertions of prejudice.






    John Collins
    on October 07, 2008
    at 04:58 PM
  • Errol Flynn

    You are right to fear a reactive state corporatism in the unified democracies of the US/UK

    However the eurozone is different because whereas monetary power is centralised, political power is diffused.

    Enemies of the eurozone (and goodness knows there are many) will point to its political fragmentation as a weakeness in times of stress

    However, the very lack of political centralism in the eurozone is in itself a durable guarantee that state corporatism will never again take hold on the continent.

    Peter B
    on October 07, 2008
    at 04:56 PM
  • Europe in the abyss,
    but US and UK in heaven.
    Ha, ha, ha...

    Error Flying
    on October 07, 2008
    at 04:47 PM
  • Yeahwell smells rotten fish this financial system. Apart from what I learnt lately on how the Fed. Res. works, i.e just creating money and lending it to gvts at interests, that is making everyone debtors with no way out, who can deny the whole thing is just TOO SUBJECTIVE TO HAVE OUR WHOLE LIVES BASED ON??
    Could everyone stop for a moment, have a thorough look at the whole thing? Please?
    I've seen that some people have worked out an alternative (it's called the Venus Project), which looks as though it's worth giving a try to.
    At any rate, we've got to stop that stinking system before it stops us having decent lives. One life each is all we've got at any given time, innit???

    Elise Darchis
    on October 07, 2008
    at 03:55 PM
  • "Nobody will be spared, unless they own gold bars."

    Even gold is not going to be worth a damn thing in the terrible depression that is coming -- the raw desperation and mass-panic is so thick in the air...do you not feel it?

    Can you eat gold? Much nutritional value there in it? At least it'll be sort-of soft and chewy when you and your huddled-hungry-cold-weak-sick-defenseless family tries to eat it. If you are lucky you'll be able to trade some gold for spare ammo with which to try to fight off the starving urban hordes who will begin to crawl all over suburbia looking for nourishment when the cities run out of canned food.

    Anyone with half a brain realizes that the only thing that is actually worth anything is good agricultural land and the skills needed to draw sustenance from it. On good land you can PRODUCE the things necessary for life, while in the city you are landless and can only CONSUME the things necessary for life because you have not the space to produce anything of actual value. How about you -- do you feel better about producing or consuming?

    In the city you are but a mere serf, a slave to The System and utterly dependent on it for all of your needs. But out here in the country we are free because we are already used to hardship, to toiling, to drawing nourishment from the Earth, to being tough in the face of adversity. We understand and deeply respect plants and animals and water and we use these things to our benefit, for our survival -- while you urbanites go around fretting about getting your street shoes a little too dirty. Oh how the tables have turned!

    If you don't have a decent farm or a well-stocked ranch you are pretty much screwed in the upcoming Great Leveling -- and as that includes about 98% of Americans and British folk it would seem that the vast bulk of y'all are screwed.

    Glad I got my college degree in soil science instead of in economics...hee-haw!

    American Agrarian
    on October 07, 2008
    at 03:46 PM
  • At times like this, I am delighted Gordon's steady hand is on the tiller to steer through these uncertain times. I'm particularly cheered to remember how he sold so much of the UK's gold reserves at almost rock bottom prices. What a visionary!

    Andrew L
    on October 07, 2008
    at 03:43 PM
  • As usual, Ambrose cuts to the chase in his esteemed style. We are fortunate to have regular access to his summaries.

    I salute those thousands of honest sods in The City (and Frankfurt, et al) who are wiping profuse sweat from their brows as they try to hold back tides, hold together dams, and work to assuage people's fears. I have often vented my wrath at bankers (or more precisely, at Fraction Reserve Banking) but I do salute the sincerity of those who actually operate (in the trenches) the day-to-day operations of the financial system.

    With that said, I have a question about the medium term future once we have got past 'stabilizing the ship.' Do we allow continued moves to currency unification, or do we say enough is enough? Do we accept that ever more centralization is systemically destabilizing (and may possibly take us directly to fascism) and that what we must oppose is any more 'le grande' ideas of further Euro expansion and (waiting quietly in the wings) the arrival of the Amero?

    Increasing numbers of us are waking up to see the subtly fascist agenda of the hidden "Elite," who want to enslave us all in a cashless society, predicated on massive databases, ID Cards, implanted microchips in the arm, mobile & e-mail monitoring, 24/7 camera surveillance, and a host of other totalitarian tools ... all dressed up by our media to sound like they are necessary to make us safe from "terrorists."

    If 9-11 was indeed perpetrated by a conspiracy of "Elite" Americans supported by two of their closest political allies from overseas, then should not the "War on Terrorism" now be correctly viewed as a necessary prologue for this non-accidental, financial emergency? A kind of "setting the dinner table?"

    Why are we (apparently) tolerating the gradual imposition of financial centralization based around the European Union and the North American Union? Who dreamt up these concepts other than ex-Communists, lapsed Trotskiists (now called NeoCons), and other political extremists hell bent on telling everyone else (i.e., the sheople) what to do.

    Mussolini & Hitler married corporate power with state socialism and state-dominated finance ... that was all made to appear nice & fluffy by a totally propagandised media. Are not the components for phasing in a similar totalitarian nightmare already in place? Certainly in Britain and the USA they are. The EU is already jailing people for what they think. Indeed, they are jailing people who committed their so-called "thought crimes" in countries outside the EU but just happen to be passing through one of the EU's international airports! [Ref: Fredrick Toben]. Are we not insane to tolerate such political extremism? Are we not inviting enslavement when we fail to ask who exactly is pushing for the entrenchment of such extreme intolerance towards any kind of dissent?

    Isn't our misplaced tolerance of mind-control (being constantly told what & how to think) one of the reasons why we are having to suffer the third massive financial (banking) collapse in just 75 years?

    I am trying to point out that in addition to the financial rupture, there are two or three hidden agendas being played out (simultaneously) that have each been designed to ensnare us. Too few are paying attention to the details, and the quiet strategizing of the conspirators and puppeteers. These hidden agendas are only meant to serve a small (often interbred) "Elite" who seem to think they are more evolved than the rest of us, and thus, are entitled to act like God.

    Do we roll over, or do we find the balls to oppose them at long last? Isn't that what Parliaments were designed to help us do?

    Financially, we can't just "bail-out" what existed before. We have to replace it with something that is more transparent, accountable, and modest ... that serves only the common good; and certainly not the interests of the discredited Wall St, Pentagon, State Department axis. If we fail to rise to the challenge that now confronts us, we may unwittingly invite a "Dr. Strangelove" into the Oval Office, with a suitably tethered poodle in Downing St.

    Errol Flynn
    on October 07, 2008
    at 03:29 PM
  • "Isn't part of the problem the mark to market valuation rules of recent regulation?"

    If one does not mark to market, how can you value a complex, illiquid, infrequently traded security?

    Answer: You can't!

    Mark-to-market simply forces price discovery. Now, the discovery may be quite painful, but the alternative is uncertainty, the mother of fear and doubt, enemies numero uno of any sane market.

    Francois Theberge
    on October 07, 2008
    at 03:21 PM
  • A coordinated central bank discount rate cut by all the economies of the center is what is needed at the moment. In fact, US markets are already pricing its existence prior to such becoming a manifested reality.

    Dean Plassaras
    on October 07, 2008
    at 03:16 PM
  • A coordinated central bank discount rate cut by all the economies of the center is what is needed at the moment. In fact, US markets are already pricing its existence prior to such becoming a manifested reality.

    Dean Plassaras
    on October 07, 2008
    at 03:16 PM
  • A bit off-topic, but I must mention it...regarding style, substance and all the good things that good writing includes - this article was a joy to read. Beautifully composed...my compliments! On the topic at hand..."this, too, shall pass." Right now, that is the only certainty.

    Richard
    on October 07, 2008
    at 02:14 PM
  • The end of a corrupt era: good riddance! What golden future rises on the horizon for the wise?

    Zeitgeist: Addendum
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

    Money as debt
    http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/135.html

    Derek
    on October 07, 2008
    at 02:14 PM
  • Please don't put the responsibility of what is happening now on the back of European or other countries when the main responsible ones are the US regulators, banks and other financial institutions that have been cheating others and have been acting like thieves for years.

    Jean
    on October 07, 2008
    at 02:06 PM
  • Please don't put the responsibility of what is happening now on the back of European or other countries when the main responsible ones are the US regulators, banks and other financial institutions that have been cheating others and have been acting like thieves for years.

    Jean
    on October 07, 2008
    at 02:01 PM
  • FEAR AND GREED. There it is in a nut-shell. Blaming any country or any one person might make some idiots feel good but it isn't the truth. The human elements of an over abundance of fear and greed led to this worldwide financial debacle.

    mauren
    on October 07, 2008
    at 01:59 PM
  • I see crapping on the Germans is still the favourite past-time in the UK. Which, frankly, seems quite obtuse to me. Your own government may very well be obliged go beg cap in hand to the very same Germans to bail your economy out in the near future. If any of them ever bothered to read some of these comments, they'll probably tell you "to go forth and multiply elsewhere".
    ps: no, I'm not a German myself, thank you very much.

    Roel
    on October 07, 2008
    at 01:52 PM
  • So the way to stop the runaway debt train is ... more debt?
    Bzzzzzt WRONG ANSWER!

    paul
    on October 07, 2008
    at 01:38 PM
  • Those predicting a biblical end don't worry. Shiva's got a few more million years to wait yet. Oh? Wrong religion? Thing is, if you're right, which one of your variants will be the ones to get through the pearly gates? Do you really think your god will judge us based on which religion we chose to believe?

    Even the idea that the more selfless or meek would do well is a hard one as in many places it will be the meeker who will suffer sooner if The End really is nigh. Selflessness and lower dependency on material things can equip us to handle poverty better, but we all still need food and water and shelter over these winter months.

    If religion is to prevail then the thing to watch out for will be how you deal with and care for those around you in any bad times to come. Will you concentrate on that aspect of your faith? Or is it all doom and gloom and damnation to the "evil sinners"? The world would be in better shape if more people concentrated on the former not the latter.

    Richard
    on October 07, 2008
    at 01:31 PM
  • Here is a video that illustrates my point below. There are others out there - you can search for them:

    http://www.redcounty.com/sac/2008/09/in-2004-maxine-waters-said-fan/

    Matt
    on October 07, 2008
    at 01:13 PM
  • >>>Bush will be historically remembered as 'THE WORST PRESIDENT' to ever reside at 1600 Pennsyvania Ave. Not only because of the Iraq debacle....But because he allowed this 'Economic Meltdown', to occur on his watch!! In other words, there was 'NO FISCAL MANAGEMENT' for 8 yrs!! This Administration has been 'ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL' for a very long time!! <<<<


    Um, George Bush TRIED to increase oversight. Far from asleep at the wheel, he was calling for reform in the mortgage markets in 2003. He was blocked by congressional Democrats, including Barney Frank and Maxine Waters. McCain likewise was calling for reforms in 2005.

    This mess falls squarely at the feet of the Democrats, who used easy, cheap mortgages for people who couldn't afford them to buy votes.

    Matt
    on October 07, 2008
    at 01:09 PM
  • Research "Community Reinvestment Act" then see if you still believe that this mess is the fault of Bush/Republican deregulation.

    Milton
    on October 07, 2008
    at 12:08 PM
  • Point one....Don't be so sure that Obama is going to be the next President!! There are MILLIONS & MILLIONS of very Patriotic WHITE Americans, who absolutely do NOT want to see a Black guy sitting in the 'Oval Office' of the W/House.....Especially, a young, VERY LIBERAL, untested and inexperienced 'NOBODY', whose only Claim-to-Fame, are Shady Associations with some very dubious 'Characters' from Chicago!! (There are many such folks in Chicago!) Oh...And he is a good Orator, to some extent!!

    Secondly, If McCain pulls this off, which he may well do...It will be a minor miracle, because not only is he at BIG ODDS with Obama but he is also having to address the 'IMMENSE' Screw-ups over 8 yrs of the 'Bush Regime'!! It's a double whammy!! McCain is having to take a lot-of-heat, because Bush is a Republican!!

    Bush will be historically remembered as 'THE WORST PRESIDENT' to ever reside at 1600 Pennsyvania Ave. Not only because of the Iraq debacle....But because he allowed this 'Economic Meltdown', to occur on his watch!! In other words, there was 'NO FISCAL MANAGEMENT' for 8 yrs!! This Administration has been 'ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL' for a very long time!!

    Now the "Chickens" are coming home to roost! And it's NOT going to be a pretty picture in the USA for several yrs. This is going to be an ENORMOUS MESS' to clean-up!! Unfortunatley, because the USA was alway's the dominant economic force in the world, (Until now) there is going to be a knock-on effect globally!! Every Economy will be affected!!

    We are going to have to return to some 'BASIC ECONOMICS' to get our house in order!! That's what happens when 'Negligence & Greed' combine!! Sorry to be the bearer of Bad News!!

    Bermuda Shorts
    on October 07, 2008
    at 12:03 PM
  • Point one....Don't be so sure that Obama is going to be the next President!! There are MILLIONS & MILLIONS of very Patriotic WHITE Americans, who absolutely do NOT want to see a Black guy sitting in the 'Oval Office' of the W/House.....Especially, a young, VERY LIBERAL, untested and inexperienced 'NOBODY', whose only Claim-to-Fame, are Shady Associations with some very dubious 'Characters' from Chicago!! (There are many such folks in Chicago!) Oh...And he is a good Orator, to some extent!!

    Secondly, If McCain pulls this off, which he may well do...It will be a minor miracle, because not only is he at BIG ODDS with Obama but he is also having to address the 'IMMENSE' Screw-ups over 8 yrs of the 'Bush Regime'!! It's a double whammy!! McCain is having to take a lot-of-heat, because Bush is a Republican!!

    Bush will be historically remembered as 'THE WORST PRESIDENT' to ever reside at 1600 Pennsyvania Ave. Not only because of the Iraq debacle....But because he allowed this 'Economic Meltdown', to occur on his watch!! In other words, there was 'NO FISCAL MANAGEMENT' for 8 yrs!! This Administration has been 'ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL' for a very long time!!

    Now the "Chickens" are coming home to roost! And it's NOT going to be a pretty picture in the USA for several yrs. This is going to be an ENORMOUS MESS' to clean-up!! Unfortunatley, because the USA was alway's the dominant economic force in the world, (Until now) there is going to be a knock-on effect globally!! Every Economy will be affected!!

    We are going to have to return to some 'BASIC ECONOMICS' to get our house in order!! That's what happens when 'Negligence & Greed' combine!! Sorry to be the bearer of Bad News!!